Jaynes and McLuhan and Writing Systems

Discussion of Julian Jaynes's first hypothesis - that consciousness (as he carefully defines it) is based on language, and related topics.
Post Reply
newmedia
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:01 pm

Jaynes and McLuhan and Writing Systems

Post by newmedia »

Hello:

I just received the CD of the 2013 Jaynes conference, where Merlin Donald keynoted, and it reminded me of my conversations with both men -- about Marshall McLuhan.

I met Julian in his office at Princeton and then flew to Prince Edward Island to spend a day with him, shortly before he died. In that conversation, he told me that he had come to view the development of consciousness as linked to the use of the alphabet, a view which he associated with the work of Marshall McLuhan.

I met Merlin in the back of a campus bus at Rudgers, after he had given a talk that I came down to hear. In that conversation, he told me that two of his greatest influences were Julian Jaynes (who he mentioned in his book) and Marshall McLuhan (who he had not mentioned in print.)

I have subsequently become an "amateur" McLuhan scholar and also involved with cultural developments in China. In late 2012, I helped to organize a "Forum on World Civilizations" at the United Nations, where I was the final scheduled speaker.

In my presentation, I noted how the fundamental differences between the West and the (Chinese) East was "grounded" in their writing systems. As the most basic of "communications technologies," these two systems -- one alphabetic and the other ideo/picto-graphic -- create the environments in which our "consciousness" develops. Since the environments are different, then our respective "consciousnesses" (plural) must also be different.

These differences, I suggested, reflected quite different psychological responses to the "Axial Age," from which Jaynes' "Origin" developed (being careful to not use the term "evolved," since Jaynes was emphatic with me about how that was not appropriate.)

The Confucian Analects, which were not actually written by the "sage" but by his disciples, is perhaps best understood as the "rules" for behavior in a world where the "voices" were no longer speaking. As in other places (circa 500BC), the "bicameral mind" was fading and needed to be replaced with written communications.

This is the shift from the "mythic" mentality to the "theoretic" mentality, as described by Donald in his "Origins of the Modern Mind" and by Jaynes in "Origins of Consciousnness."

Has anyone in the wider Jaynes community done any work on "writing systems"?

And, has anyone in this group (other than Merlin Donald) made the connection between Jaynes and McLuhan (and/or others discussing similar topics like Eric Havelock in his "Preface to Plato")?

Mark Stahlman
Jersey City Heights
Moderator
Site Admin
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Jaynes and McLuhan and Writing Systems

Post by Moderator »

It's a great question but off hand I can't point you to any research on this. I know Jan Sleutels, who has spoken at several of the conferences on Jaynes, is also interested in McLuhan and the impact of media on psychology. You might look for some of his publications or see if he can point you to other research.

Hopefully others will add to this topic as well.
newmedia
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:01 pm

Re: Jaynes and McLuhan and Writing Systems

Post by newmedia »

Thanks -- I have send an email to Prof. Sleutels and await his response!

The problem is that Jaynes makes no "sense" without trying to take changing technological environments into account. I presume that most people on this list never met the man and only know of him through his book -- which he considered to be *wrong* on many accounts.

In particular, when I interviewed him at the end of his life, he had discarded the various "migration" and other "stress" explanations he offers in "Origins" and had replaced them with the *alphabet* as the "cause" of consciousness.

Merlin Donald figured this out. But it seems, now that I've listened to all the speeches from last summer's conference, that many others have not . . .

Mark Stahlman
Jersey City Heights
benjamindavidsteele
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:07 am

Re: Jaynes and McLuhan and Writing Systems

Post by benjamindavidsteele »

That is interesting. Offhand, I'm not sure I've heard any discussion about Jaynesian consciousness and aslphabetic language. I'd be curious to hear anyone's thoughts on this.
benjamindavidsteele
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:07 am

Re: Jaynes and McLuhan and Writing Systems

Post by benjamindavidsteele »

newmedia wrote: Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:58 amIn particular, when I interviewed him at the end of his life, he had discarded the various "migration" and other "stress" explanations he offers in "Origins" and had replaced them with the *alphabet* as the "cause" of consciousness.
Then again, what if Jaynes was originally right and so, later on, wrong about having been wrong? It's not like it's an either/or scenario, anyway. I'd argue it's highly improbable that it was a single causal factor, most likely a web of overlapping and cumulative factors that finally hit a breaking point. Put in larger context, migration would simply be one indicator among many of general worsening instability, conflict, and stress. The question would be then what was causing migration and hence causing once separate populations to come into contact, not to mention cultural influence and syncretism, often resulting in violence and further instability, at least until stabilizing into new cultures. Obviously, multiple things were going on that were pushing and pulling from all directions. But all of that is more of an external focus. So, how does it translate to psychological and neurocognitive changes?

Stress is about about the impact it all was having on the human psyche. Consider that increasing agriculture over time would mean increasing pathogen and parasite exposure from human and animal population density, and increased disease has been shown in studies to alter psychology (e.g., higher population rates of authoritarianism and conventionalism, as Jaynes described in the sudden appearance of written rules). Even a change in language, such as the invention of the alphabet, could involve stress-inducing-or-exacerbating factors. After all, it presumably would be a destabilizing sociocultural change. In my own writings, I've noted that many changes were happening in what might be called the Long Axial Age, the period from the collapse of bicameral-minded civilization to the full dominance of Jaynesian consciousness. Besides linguistic and literary developments, this also involved vast changes in agricultural practices, diet, and substance use.

Let me give some examples. Previously, farming had involved weedy semi-wild fields. But in the Axial Age, weed control methods were developed and spread. This helped also to control for the psychedelic ergot. Also, there was development of new cultivars: opium, sugar cane, etc. So, possibly a decline of psychedelic influence and increased intake of addictive substances. This relates to differences across vast regions. The Chinese mostly grew and ate rice, whereas the Mediterranean people ate other grains. Egyptians were the first to have a wheat-based diet, but wheat was more slow to take hold elsewhere because it is difficult to grow. In the West, wheat was only affordable and accessible to most of the population starting in the early 19th century. Interestingly, wheat has addictive components and has been linked to worsening schizophrenia. But East and West, the increased production of rice and grains meant a higher carb diet, along with the decline of wild-caught animal foods. That would impact brain growth and neurocognitive development.
Post Reply

Return to “1.0. Hypothesis One: Consciousness Based On Language”